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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
to boost octane ratings and lower combustion temps, less detonation??

just wondering if anyone uses toluene in their ktm rfs and whether their may be any detrimental effects.

i cant get great gas in my town and i was thinking i could get a drum of toluene to mix with the gas to bring the octane rating up to exceed the manufacturers recommendations.
cheers
matt
 

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Sounds a nasty stuff to me mate? is there nothing 'safer' to get the octane rating up ? or is it really an Aussie 'tax saving' excercise?

"Toluene is a common solvent, able to dissolve paints, paint thinners, silicone sealants,[6] many chemical reactants, rubber, printing ink, adhesives (glues), lacquers, leather tanners, and disinfectants. It can also be used as a fullerene indicator, and is a raw material for toluene diisocyanate (used in the manufacture of polyurethane foam) and TNT. In addition, it is used as a solvent to create a solutions of carbon nanotubes. It is also used as a cement for fine polystyrene kits (by dissolving and then fusing surfaces) as it can be applied very precisely by brush and contains none of the bulk of an adhesive.

Industrial uses of toluene include dealkylation to benzene, and the disproportionation to a mixture of benzene and xylene in the BTX process. When oxidized it yields benzaldehyde and benzoic acid, two important intermediates in chemistry. It is also used as a carbon source for making Multi-Wall Carbon Nanotubes. Toluene can be used to break open red blood cells in order to extract hemoglobin in biochemistry experiments.

Toluene can be used as an octane booster in gasoline fuels used in internal combustion engines. Toluene at 86% by volume fueled all the turbo Formula 1 teams in the 1980s, first pioneered by the Honda team. The remaining 14% was a "filler" of n-heptane, to reduce the octane to meet Formula 1 fuel restrictions. Toluene at 100% can be used as a fuel for both two-stroke and four-stroke engines; however, due to the density of the fuel and other factors, the fuel does not vaporize easily unless preheated to 70 degrees Celsius (Honda accomplished this in their Formula 1 cars by routing the fuel lines through the muffler system to heat the fuel). Toluene also poses similar problems as alcohol fuels, as it eats through standard rubber fuel lines and has no lubricating properties as standard gasoline does, which can break down fuel pumps and cause upper cylinder bore wear.

In Australia, toluene has been found to have been illegally combined with petrol in fuel outlets for sale as standard vehicular fuel. Toluene attracts no fuel excise, while other fuels are taxed at over 40%, so fuel suppliers are able to profit from substituting the cheaper toluene for petrol. This substitution is likely to affect engine performance and result in additional wear and tear. The extent of toluene substitution has not been determined.[7][8]

Toluene has also been used as a coolant for its good heat transfer capabilities in sodium cold traps used in nuclear reactor system loops.

Toluene should not be inhaled due to its health effects. Low to moderate levels can cause tiredness, confusion, weakness, drunken-type actions, memory loss, nausea, loss of appetite, and hearing and color vision loss. These symptoms usually disappear when exposure is stopped. Inhaling high levels of toluene in a short time may cause light-headedness, nausea, or sleepiness. It can also cause unconsciousness, and even death. Toluene may negatively affect kidney function."
 

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Sounds like the ideal stuff to put in a bike with a plastic tank!

In UK I have never seen signs of detonation on an RFS, even 450SX with tight squish and witness marks from piston kissing the head.

Does your bike "ping" under load? Dont get piston slap confused with pinging.
 

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No probs running it in low concentrations, but as Kev says, check hose, tank and float valve for problems. When run in the F1 turbo cars, and later in lower mixes in the non turbo cars (untill tighter fuel regs came in) we couldn't leave the fuel in the cars overnight, and when pumping out after the race the fuel was black where it disolved the tank bag.
 

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No probs running it in low concentrations, but as Kev says, check hose, tank and float valve for problems. When run in the F1 turbo cars, and later in lower mixes in the non turbo cars (untill tighter fuel regs came in) we couldn't leave the fuel in the cars overnight, and when pumping out after the race the fuel was black where it disolved the tank bag.
Where you a F1 technician back then?
 

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Nasty stuff tolulene :eek::eek:


The crackheads in the states put an open bucket of it in the corner of a room to get them even more spaced out than the crack they are smoking :wanker:

I used to use a well known wax furniture polish that contained tolulene , you had to leave a window open or things started going slightly blury , the same polish is now tolulene free :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
it is an un-taxed form of octane booster. i have read it is used by petrol companies to acheive their desired octane ratings. i have read about the f1 teams of the 80's using it.
the standard bottle of octane booster off the shelf costs $25 per 500ml, it treats 60L of fuel. it also leaves a residue on the spark plugs from its impurities. (i have seen this first hand from using it in my subaru with turbo engine and changing the plugs as they fouled from the octane booster). as toluene is un-taxed you can get 20L for about $60. the octane rating of pure toluene is 121ron. add just 1L to the 9L tank and mix it with 8L 95ron from the pump and acheive 98ron in the tank.

kev - i can hear what i beleive to be a bit of detonation just off idle in the first 1-2 gears in tight conditions. being quite a torquey engine, it gets up into the power band quickly and past the point of detonation, so there is only a small amount of rpm where is pings. i have never really heard piston slap first hand so im not sure if i could be confusing it with slap. i have heard detonation or pre-ignition heaps on older cars and on my subaru when it was not tuned correctly with too advanced ignition timing.
 

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Really, really low revs you can get the auto decompressor to rattle ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Really, really low revs you can get the auto decompressor to rattle ;)
oh yeah ive never thought of that. ive heard it while warming the bike up and the revs drop a bit low. i guess the revs could get down that low for it to slap around a bit. i only notice it in low gears as when i get some speed up i cant hear it for the wind noise
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
well after trying to induce what i had previously thought was knock, i came up unsuccessful after several attemps. maybe it was fresh fuel needed, although i try to use fresh fuel each ride
 
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