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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all, new to the forum and a new KTM owner.

I am in a sticky situation. Bought a KTM 690 Enduro R from a KTM dealer 1 week ago. And it's a complete lemon. 2014 reg with 25k miles.

TLDR : dealer lied about bike service history, commanded forecourt price for a trade quality bike. Dealer agreed to take it back but I want to keep it and get him to give me partial refund towards restoration.

Full story.

The advert on eBay said it had 1 owner and full dealer service history and the bike went through their workshop inspection. I called them and he said it was sold by them from new, serviced by them and they knew the owner. The bike just needed new tyre and was a bit dirty as the owner never cleaned it. MOT Nov 2019.

I asked for service history breakdown and more photos. He only emailed me service history details but no pics.

So hoping I could trust KTM dealership I hired a van and drove for 3 hours to collect the bike.

The bike looked filthy with some surface rust but it run and rode fine. Service book was only stamped untill 2016. So it was missing one service in 2018 that they claimed it had. When I questioned this, they told me it was on the KTM system and not in the book. They said the valve clearance were done in 2018 at 25k and the bike wasn't used.

We negotiated and I paid £350 less than the asking prices of £5k. He did not want to budge on the price and said the bike was wroth much more. Was quite rude and dismissive.

The next day I inspected the bike and noticed that there was a lot of deterioration on the engine case covers and they needed replacing. (£200-£300). Number plate holder completely cracked (£30), Air filter looked original and had a date on it from 2014. Valve clearances were out. Spark plugs rusty and fouled.
Looked up service history on KTM portal and it was missing the service they claimed it had in 2018.

I emailed the dealer and asked to return the bike. He agreed to take it back.

The next day, regrettably, I thought instead of spending money and time on hiring the van again, I would strip the bike and restore it. Was willing to spend few hundred pounds, accept the losses and enjoy the restoration process. So I ordered replacement and service parts and started stripping the bike.

I emailed him again asking if he was willing to send me some parts or refund me partially. He said no and asked to return the bike. Again very dismissive.

Yesterday, I discovered that the lower shock bearing is badly worn. I got the bearing out to discover that the bearing worn the shock housing out and damaged it. Which means a new rear shock. £100-300 used or £800 new.

When cleaning the rear wheel I noticed hairline cracks around spokes which means either a new wheel or a new rim and a wheel rebuild.
£500 for a new wheel. Not sure how much to rebuild.

Rear disc is badly lipped and has a lot of free play on the rivets. Needs a new disc.

The bike is in bits at the moment, and a lot of parts are on order.

I spent around £300 already, not sure if I can return the parts back to KTM.

I still have the option of returning the bike, but with the parts on order and time required to put it back together + van hire and losing the day on driving there and back, I really want to keep it.

On the other hand, I don't want to spend £6k on the bike that's probably worth around £5k when restored.

Any other options?


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Sounds a real lemon. I would have walked away once I’d viewed it and put the 3 hrs van drive down to experience. Sounds like you knew it was a dog at that stage but still negotiated and willingly paid too much for it. I might be knocking on a bit but was brought up on, BUYER BEWARE!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Impulse. I wanted 690 for a while, didn't want to spend too much and there isn't much choice on the market below £5k.
A lot of these issues were not visible as the bike was filthy.
I chanced it, hoping I could trust a KTM dealership. Turns out not...

Question is, put it back together and return it, or can I get him to partially refund me? Speculation here but if he paid £2-3k for it in PX value to the previous owner then there is at least £1500 profit he made on the bike from selling it to me.

Can I complain to KTM?



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The bikes going to be a money pit with the very little previous maintenance it has enjoyed. Off road bikes need constant care and attention, this also includes through cleaning to keep them in good fettle and enable you to see potential problems. If it was me I would box it up and return it to dealer as he has offered and move on. As for the last question, ANYONE can complain to KTM!
 

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I think KTM would be well within their right to say " it's a used bike well out of KTM warranty, the issue is between you and the dealer"
Take it back if it's that bad, the dealer has covered their selves by offering to accept the return and refund you.
 

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Sadly all part of the joy of buying 2nd hand. My 990 was 3 years old when l bought it and it looked ok when l viewed it. On taking it apart to deep clean and do chassis bearings, it became apparant that it hadnt been maintained that well and when it had, the p.o had used wrong tools, brute force and ignorance. I ended up having to get a lengthy list of replacement parts that have made the bike financial nonesense.

But.

I wanted an ADV for ages and l have been able to make it the bike that l want and intend to keep it and to use it for more trips. Now l have sorted the p.o's f/u's, and those createdby ktm, it is a great bike (with just a couple of remaining bits to do)

So, if this is a bike that you have hankered after for a while, are looking to keep it, then as you are so far in, tell dealer what is wrong with it and try and negotiate some payback in parts (which they (as in any dealer, not this one specifically) will probably prefer doing ime)

If the was intended as a quick flip, then return it.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Sadly all part of the joy of buying 2nd hand. My 990 was 3 years old when l bought it and it looked ok when l viewed it. On taking it apart to deep clean and do chassis bearings, it became apparant that it hadnt been maintained that well and when it had, the p.o had used wrong tools, brute force and ignorance. I ended up having to get a lengthy list of replacement parts that have made the bike financial nonesense.

But.

I wanted an ADV for ages and l have been able to make it the bike that l want and intend to keep it and to use it for more trips. Now l have sorted the p.o's f/u's, and those createdby ktm, it is a great bike (with just a couple of remaining bits to do)

So, if this is a bike that you have hankered after for a while, are looking to keep it, then as you are so far in, tell dealer what is wrong with it and try and negotiate some payback in parts (which they (as in any dealer, not this one specifically) will probably prefer doing ime)

If the was intended as a quick flip, then return it.
That's what I was thinking. I want to keep it because it's now in bits and stripped to the frame and when I put it back together, I will know it inside out.

If I return it, I might get another bike but who knows what will need to be done to it down the road so might end up spending the same amount of money and effort.

I just want the dealer to admit his lies and compensate me.
I would expect this kind of behaviour from a private seller or a small bike shop. Not from a main KTM dealership.

Thanks for the positive comment.


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You have no leverage here.
The dealer has already said they will not negotiate a partial refund, and I probably wouldn't either if I had sold the bike.
If dealers did start to do it then it would soon become common practise to complain about your newly purchased used bike in an attempt to haggle a partial refund.

The dealer has been ok in this instance as they have offered you a full refund.
To be honest when I started reading this I thought you were going to say they have refused to accept the bike back... but in all honesty it seems to be you that has made mistakes.

You shouldn't have started ordering parts until the dealer had accepted to pay for them, in fact they might have wanted to just supply them to you but by ordering them yourself you have removed that option from them.

** Edited as originally this bit made no sense**
You have two choices now, way up the cost of your parts and further van hire to return the bike (in which case you will be down some money and time & having nothing to show for it other than some new parts) verses the cost of putting it right and keeping it.
****

BTW - I would just take it back and chalk it up to experience. Some of the parts you've just bought could be used on your next 690, others will eventually sell on ebay.
 

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I have dealt with this dealer in the past (having bought 3 new bikes from him) and found him to be fair, but l know of other instances where there have been problems. I have similarly bought bikes from another not so local dealer and had a problem with a new bike that l ended up having to resolve, although they supplied replacement and compensatory parts foc.

Hence now l expect there to be problems with whatever bike l get (either dealer or private)

With your engine - not sure what miles those motors can do prior to a refresh, so bear that in mind with build/costings.

Cheers
 

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The bike just needed new tyre and was a bit dirty as the owner never cleaned it. MOT Nov 2019.
At this point the deal had been off if I had been interested. Period.

The bike looked filthy with some surface rust but it run and rode fine. Service book was only stamped untill 2016.
I had turned around and left with a nice "fuck off Mr. dealer" on my lips.

I emailed the dealer and asked to return the bike. He agreed to take it back.
The first thing you did which made sense.

The next day, regrettably, I thought instead of spending money and time on hiring the van again, I would strip the bike and restore it.
Sorry to say that, but you are the customer every dealer dreams of...
 

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Throw it back together, take it back, get you money before the 14 day cool off is up. If they could not even be bothered to clean it how were you supposed to inspect it? Makes no sense.
 

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Hi all, new to the forum and a new KTM owner.
Your mugging yourself off. That's one hell of a neglected bike, and you've barely scratched the surface of how bad a state it's in. That bearing tells you all you need to know about the last owner. God knows what the internals are like. It'll cost you way more than a few hundred to fix that.
Cancel your parts orders and return the piece of shit.
 

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I agree with the majority...take it back and get a refund. Only a nut and bolt, no expense spared restoration will transform a lemon into a mint bike IMHO.

The short-term inconvenience and frustration will be a lot less than the long-term cost and heartache in my experience.

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I’d be surprised if he will offer you anything other than a tuff shit if he sees the bike in bits on here now ?
 
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