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When you can't afford the repayments, whe you don't understand about interest and how it adds to the amount you need to repay, when you don't understand the consequences of not repaying, when you agree to grossly disproportionate interest rates etc.
Finance is a great tool if you use it correctly. If you are an idiot its very dangerous as quick credit is easy to get.

Someone I know credit card hopped to build a rental unit on his land, probably cost him a couple of hundred quid in fees at the very most. That unit now pays a substantial amount a year in rent which is more than the average yearly income in the UK and will do forever.

The other side of that though is me and the wife used to quite often get called into helping her sister with various financial problems. One of which was her friend who was furious with a kitchen company as she had a new kitchen fitted 2 years ago and had rang about the repayments. She thought after 2 years she had it paid off but found out she still had 3 years to go, she didn't even know what the final value of the credit was and had just looked at the monthly payments and signed it.

Unsurprisingly we told her there's nothing much we can do to help 😂
 

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I beg to differ. I don’t have finance or loans on anything I own but my best does. He uses his capital to buy property which pays for his toys. Where as I have wasted £84k on a car that’s loosing money each month.
he has invested his, that pays the payments on his Porsche that he leases. His capital is increasing though.
who’s smarter after ten years.
my car will be worthless.
his properties will have had their mortgages paid, gone up in value and increased his capital investment as well as having 3 new Porsche cars compared to my 10 year old one.
I couldn’t be bothered to type this but exactly what I do. Someone’s inability to understand the advantages of finance and use it to their advantage at appropriate times, doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing. I’d never sink £30k+ cash in to a car even if I had the money. If the world/my industry goes tits up they can come and repossess it and I’ll have lost a few monthly payments and still have my money in the bank, for the sake of a bit of interest.

That being said I wouldn’t finance an enduro or MX bike.
 

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Bikes are expensive now because

Production was disrupted by covid.

Costs are increasing because container shipping costs have risen steeply (covid saw too many boxes stranded in the west as goods were stockpiled, not returned to the east for refilling)

Suez canal was blocked.

Microprocessor/semi-conductor production is being massively disrupted while demand increases.


It's a perfect storm.
 

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I pay extra on my mortgage each week, so I pay less interest.
And I redraw if I want to buy a bike. No credit my money.
 

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Bikes are expensive now because

Production was disrupted by covid.

Costs are increasing because container shipping costs have risen steeply (covid saw too many boxes stranded in the west as goods were stockpiled, not returned to the east for refilling)

Suez canal was blocked.

Microprocessor/semi-conductor production is being massively disrupted while demand increases.


It's a perfect storm.
We are getting a pallet airfreight from the US at $10k!
I know a hifi importer and he is paying $22k for 4 pallets from Sweden via sea. It was $1500 each before covid.
Thanks a lot China ya fucking idiots.
 

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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
Ha Ha lots of stating the obvious about how to use finance but what is worrying is the fact people seem to think borrowing lots of money to pile in to some business plan is a dead cert to big profit.

More worrying is this attitude that if it does go tits up as many do they can just declair themselves bankrupt, walk away and start up again in the wifes name. Maybe in law but there are other ways they go about getting there money back!:sneaky:

Back to buying a bike on finance say you borrow £10,000 to buy a bike pay off half then loose your job and default on the payments and it gets snatched back, by the time they have paid someone to recover the bike, costs of selling it and the fact they will let it go for peanuts then add admin charges and what ever else they dream up you will get very little back, in fact they might want more money from you.
So you have being paying out good money for a few years and have nothing to show for it and maybe even more debt all for a hobby/ pastime!
 

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Discussion Starter · #68 ·
Bikes are expensive now because

Production was disrupted by covid.

Costs are increasing because container shipping costs have risen steeply (covid saw too many boxes stranded in the west as goods were stockpiled, not returned to the east for refilling)

Suez canal was blocked.

Microprocessor/semi-conductor production is being massively disrupted while demand increases.


It's a perfect storm.
Add to that middle men increase there percentage because they can and blame it on covid.
 

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Discussion Starter · #69 ·
Hold on make that £15 grand not £10 and even more cost cutting on ktm quality and customer service If that is possible:LOL: Tech 3 have announced they are with ktm in moto gp for another 5 years !!! Thought they might have kicked that drain on funds that is moto gp in the head.

My unloved under serviced 3 1/2 year old WR450F and the kids YZ125's are still running trouble free ;)
 

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KTM in their 2019 accounts were carrying €420m in debt against profits of €98m.

That debt has been borrowed from someone. Its a fact of life.

39362
 

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Discussion Starter · #71 ·
KTM in their 2019 accounts were carrying €420m in debt against profits of €98m.

That debt has been borrowed from someone. Its a fact of life.

View attachment 39362
Yeh, another reason not to put a deposit on a ktm.

As ever always the flash gits who like to make out they are loaded who are actully in loads of debt, sad world we live in!
 

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KTM's business strategy baffles me.

Buy up competitors and either close them ('berg) or make them into KTM clones (Husky, and now GasGas). Why???? It's on its way to becoming British Leyland or BSA-Triumph/Norton-Villiers Triumph. Multiple near-identical bike brands competing for the same market niche, but each having its own marketing overhead, race teams etc.

There's a non-KTM branded 790 Adventure on its way to these shores. OK, it's made in China, but then so is the equivalent KTM. In the name of God, why?
 

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When I sell something to a customer they get 30 days to pay, thats standard. That’s a form of credit. The customer takes that credit not because they cannot afford the goods, they take it because that's how most businesses cash flows work. Part of the profit that I make goes towards the carrying of that customer debt, and the risk of not being paid on time or maybe not at all.

Its basic economics.
 

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Discussion Starter · #75 ·

"CFMoto’s KTM ties go much deeper than a mere engine deal, as the Chinese firm manufactures multiple bikes on behalf of KTM already. For 2021, it’s taking on the job of building the 790 Duke, seen above in CFMoto-made form courtesy of Chinese government type-approval documents."
 

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When I sell something to a customer they get 30 days to pay, thats standard. That’s a form of credit. The customer takes that credit not because they cannot afford the goods, they take it because that's how most businesses cash flows work. Part of the profit that I make goes towards the carrying of that customer debt, and the risk of not being paid on time or maybe not at all.

Its basic economics.
They don't pay any interest on the debt though?
Unlike if you don't pay your taxes. Pricks
 

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Discussion Starter · #78 ·
When I sell something to a customer they get 30 days to pay, thats standard. That’s a form of credit. The customer takes that credit not because they cannot afford the goods, they take it because that's how most businesses cash flows work. Part of the profit that I make goes towards the carrying of that customer debt, and the risk of not being paid in time or maybe not at all.

Its basic economics.
No it's 30 days from the end of the month, some business's will not buy anything unless it it almost the end of a month so they have best part of 2 month's to pay, what a cock eyed way of working, no suprise things take so long.
I leave plenty in the business account so if we need it we have it, apart from my main suppliers who I do have accounts with I always pay for things as I have them, as long as I have the invoice.
 

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Its not always 30 days from end of month.
 

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You can charge interest on late payments in the UK. Its written into law

Id lose customers pretty quick doing that.
Ours is 30 days from invoice. Which can be 60 days for some. Or the real pricks don't pay until they need something again.
We give them a few warnings then on COD.
You lose your privilege cunts.
Had quite a few go broke on us. Some double there order just before they go under.
Then start up again! We charge them COD then put the price up. Only way to get some of the money back. 😩
 
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