KTM Owners Forum banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,119 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
stolen fron an Aprilia forum but backs up what we all think:mad:


Paolo Giovagnoli, the prosecutor of Rimini, has opened a dossier of inquiry into the death of Shoya Tomizawa, the 19 year-old Moto2 rider who lost his life Sunday in a horrific crash during the San Marino GP. The inquest into Tomizawa’s death is investigating unknown persons, who may have contributed to Tomizawa’s injuries when he was hastily taken off the track via stretcher, which was subsequently dropped in the process. Tomizawa’s body will undergo a full autopsy, which could lead to manslaughter charges being drawn up against the track workers, and possibly track authorities as well.

Clinica Mobile and track officials have drawn heavy fire since the incident Sunday. At the center of the controversy was the decision not to red flag the race, and the brisk removal of the riders, bikes, and debris that occurred so the race could continue unhindered. Race officials have stood behind their decision saying that a red flag was not necessary to safely transport Tomizawa and the other riders, and in fact a red flag scenario would have delayed potentially lifesaving medical help to Tomizawa.

“Immediately the first idea I think is if it’s possible to stop the race because it’s dangerous, but the people with the stretcher immediately arrived and when you remove the rider from the track for my medical decision I do not ask Race Direction for the red flag because this does not help my job, because we delay the intervention for the ambulance,” said Dr. Claudio Macchiagodena of the Clinica Mobile.

“Behind the track protection we had one ambulance with the respirator inside and we started immediately all the intensive care for him. I didn’t ask for the red flag because I didn’t need it. After the rider came to the medical centre I had some people asking me why it took a lot of time. The intensive care started behind the protection of the track. Normally when you have a broken arm the ambulance is the same as a taxi, where you put the rider inside and send him quickly. Now it was very important to have the ventilation and two doctors. When he arrived at the medical centre his condition was critical, and we continued the intensive care.”

Despite Dr. Macchiagodena’s statement, the issue that many are having with the treatment by the corner workers stems from the rapid use of a stretcher to take the riders off the track. Suffering from head, back, and chest impacts, Tomizawa was taken off the track with seemingly little care given to the potential injuries in these regions.

The issue was only compounded further as Tomizawa was dropped while on the stretcher in the process of being extracted from the track. While it remains unclear if these circumstances exacerbated Tomizawa’s injuries, it has drawn serious attention to the protocols of rider safety in crashes like the one at San Marino.

Source: ANSA via MotoBlog.it
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
I wondered when this article would come out, it was a horrific accident, I was shocked when the marshals dropped the stretcher.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,600 Posts
Very difficult one - don't know about racing at MotoGP level but most marshals at club level racing are unpaid (and often un-thanked) volunteers who do it because the love the sport. They do undergo training and everything I have seen shows that they take it all very seriously and operate at a highly professional level.

Any potential legal claim against a marshall will undoubtedly have nasty repercussions if the same approach could be followed in the UK. Would people continue to want to marshall knowing that a mistake made wholst under pressure could lead to legal claims against them ?

Don't forget no marshalls = no racing................
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,119 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
i think the Race Director should be fucked with the rough end of a pineapple for not putting the red flag out, it this had happened every rider could have been seen to by the doctors ON THE TRACK where they lay, if this had happened Shoya would have never been dropped and the Marshall's placed under investigation
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,881 Posts
Very difficult one - don't know about racing at MotoGP level but most marshals at club level racing are unpaid (and often un-thanked) volunteers who do it because the love the sport. They do undergo training and everything I have seen shows that they take it all very seriously and operate at a highly professional level.

Any potential legal claim against a marshall will undoubtedly have nasty repercussions if the same approach could be followed in the UK. Would people continue to want to marshall knowing that a mistake made wholst under pressure could lead to legal claims against them ?

Don't forget no marshalls = no racing................
agree with what he said!

its tragic that he lost his life - but he died due to the injuries sustained in the crash. doing what he loved and knowing the risks

The marshalls probably tried to do the best they could under pressure and under the circumstances and IMHO you shouldn't blame them...

thats bike racing and its a risky business - 'ya pays ya money and ya takes ya choice'

otherwise whats next..... you sue the NHS because an ambulance was late.......this fookin american blame culture is not good for the sport or the UK
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,852 Posts
Just can't agree Beer. Nobody could be proud of that bit of work. I wasn't even happy with the way they bundled the other bloke onto his stretcher. I thought it was a long way from best possible care.

Having said that I still agree with CTD and Pebble. The buck stops with the race director IMO, and we could see serious repercussions at a club level if these track workers are found to have contributed to this tragic death.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,602 Posts
fookin `ell .............. beer is still round.... thought you had disappeared.......

sorry lads, now you can get back on topic
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,811 Posts
We have all seen this type off accident in the past on the track ...If the rider/driver is not moving then stop the race and assess his injury's before you move him don't ..chuck him on a stretcher too get him out the way so the race will go on and the main event (GP) isn't delayed by 20 minuets ....AND MAKE SURE YOU DON'T DROP HIM EITHER....when the paramedics turn up too any kind off spill in the UK it takes em ages before any ones moved
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,881 Posts
fookin `ell .............. beer is still round.... thought you had disappeared.......

sorry lads, now you can get back on topic
STOP...

i'm around - on here most days - but mostly only post in the adventure section - where the action is:D

I read your posts and are glad to see you are still producing lots of the usual bollocks that we've come to expect and love:p

......carry on:burnout:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
147 Posts
I have worked in the emergency services for getting on for 25 yrs now and I thought the process of 'scoop and run' was long gone, in this country it is anyway. It is widely recognised that a casualty's best chance of survival with minimal increase in injuries is to stabilse them where they are. That is why we have HEMS (air ambulances) to bring the doctor to the patient. I remember seeing an overseas race years ago where this happened and the amount of bad press it created should have made any track sit up and take notice, obviously not. I was appalled at the way Scott Redding was immediately rolled onto a stretcher with no kind of assesment first. I did not see Tomizawa put on a stretcher as I think it happened off camera. I think that the race should have without doubt been stopped and the likes of Rossi et al would have not been the slightest bit worried about their race being delayed if it meant Tomizawa(and potentially themselves) getting first class treatment.
P.S. I Sky+ the races as I was marshalling an enduro race in Hampshire on Sunday.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,747 Posts
I was also appalled at how the marshals chucked Scott Redding onto the stretcher, he could have had spinal injuries but they failed to check seemingly being in a hurry so the race could continue. The way Tomizawa was bundled off and then dropped beggars belief. The marshals that work at Moto GP should be absolutely top of their game, this was not a good example. I have unfortunately been a broken pile of bits in a gravel trap this year at club level and the marshals and paramedics were brilliant, I couldn't have asked for better attention, their efforts were far better than those seen at San Marino. From what I can tell the race was more important than the downed riders' needs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,323 Posts
Have to agree with Beer, that was a shocking crash and getting hit by the next two riders cant have been less detremental than dropping off a stretcher... Hopefully an inquiry will bring about safer track side handling for everyone the world over but screwing an individual/company over wont bring the lad back now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,060 Posts
Responsibility for the handling of the entire incident should ultimately lie with the Race Director. He or she should have RED FLAGGED the race stopping the racing from that moment (the official word was that a RED FLAG could have caused confusion and more accidents? WTF!? These super human beings race with the reactions of a cat and can respond accordingly to bikes and riders inches away from one another travelling at 170mph+ BUT a RED flag would cause an accident :censored:).

At the point of the RED FLAG the standby medical chopper with it's highly trained medical trauma staff would have dealt with Tomizawa in the correct way.

I actually feel sorry for the marshals involved (as previously said by others). A fatal mistake made by a marshal put in a pressured situation they shouldn't be dealing with is a tough thing to deal with.

Simply, the race should have been stopped and Shoya Tomizawa, Scott Reading and Alex De Angelis could have been seen to in the correct manner. Shoya may not have lived but at least the correct procedure would have given him every possible chance of survival.

Shoya Tomizawa was my favorite rider in the Moto2 and fast becoming my favorite rider in the whole MotoGp sport. I'm sad that he wasn't treated in the manner the situation deserved.

Crispy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,852 Posts
Its not like any of these riders have got to where they are without seeing a red flag or two. And I'm not sure I've ever seen a crash caused by one... They're clutching at straws now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,668 Posts
The race should have been red flagged - it seems the racing was more important than injuries to riders. Prosecution of originations or individuals won't help the situation, but I hope an inquiry will mean that riders won't be bundled off of the track in the future.

Crispy has summed it up perfectly for me.

Simply, the race should have been stopped and Shoya Tomizawa, Scott Reading and Alex De Angelis could have been seen to in the correct manner. Shoya may not have lived but at least the correct procedure would have given him every possible chance of survival.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,016 Posts
i agree alittle with what is being said here......aka it should have been red flagged.

but if you watched the race..you would see that the doctor had his fingers on tomizawas neck to check his pulse.how close to death was he on the race track? to be fair, if he was in a possition where if he didnt get propper care within a minute or two...or stayed on the track cuz they darent move him..id move him.
he was on life support at the clinica mobile...so if he was dealt with on the track..there is a good chance he wouldnt have made it to the ambulance.

just my opinion
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
341 Posts
Rushing him to the ambulance wouldn't help his injuries or increase his chances of survival.

If he wasn't breathing/had no pulse then they should have stopped the race and get oxygen and a de-fib to him on the track instead of running with him on a stretcher causeing more injuries and probably taking more time.

The only time you should snatch and grab a casulty is if keeping them there poses an imediate danger i.e fire, toxic atmosphere etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
446 Posts
Should all race marshalls also be trained paramedics (and paid for what they do, or dont do), at this level (money involved) i dont think that is an unreasonable ask!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,197 Posts
I have worked in the emergency services for getting on for 25 yrs now and I thought the process of 'scoop and run' was long gone, in this country it is anyway. It is widely recognised that a casualty's best chance of survival with minimal increase in injuries is to stabilse them where they are. That is why we have HEMS (air ambulances) to bring the doctor to the patient. I remember seeing an overseas race years ago where this happened and the amount of bad press it created should have made any track sit up and take notice, obviously not. I was appalled at the way Scott Redding was immediately rolled onto a stretcher with no kind of assesment first. I did not see Tomizawa put on a stretcher as I think it happened off camera. I think that the race should have without doubt been stopped and the likes of Rossi et al would have not been the slightest bit worried about their race being delayed if it meant Tomizawa(and potentially themselves) getting first class treatment.
P.S. I Sky+ the races as I was marshalling an enduro race in Hampshire on Sunday.
Whoever the marshals cum first responders were they were wanton in handling basic clinical skills... whether it is at a GP race or wherever i agree they should have had him stabilised in the first instance.Might not have helped but at least i would have slept better had it been me knowing i had done my very best to do/try in managing the patient!!!!

Slack fuckers
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
When I've seen races red flagged, the riders seem to roll right of the throttle and signal to each other, seems to look pretty organised to me, no chance of more accidents.

The marshalls tend to work at/for the track, not MotoGP/Dorma, so they will marshall the club races too.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top