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Discussion Starter #1
Hi bought one of these last week to try I know a few of you have had them and not been able to set them up and then give up on them
Well I spoke to Ozzy before I fit mine during and after and still wasn't happy
So emailed them direct today and he sent me this detailed email about setup
He was shocked to hear people had given up on them and is confident everyone
Will love them when set up correctly, he has asked me to post his reply email
To assist anyone else with setup and to remind you of if your not happy send it back for a full refund carnt fault that well here's his reply to me



On 9 Jan 2015, at 16:12, Steve Pohl <[email protected]> wrote:



Ross,
I am sorry you are having trouble getting the lever adjusted properly. I am sure we can get you sorted with some explanations and minor readjustments.

First of all the alternate piston rod I supply is for the 350 bikes. For some reason there is a manufacturing variation that shows up specific to that particular bike even though the master cylinder is the same part number as all other bikes using Brembo MC's. On about 30% of the 350's the piston rod seems to be too long for use with my lever so I supply a shorter piston rod for an extra $10. I doubt you need the shorter piston rod but it does remain a possibility. The test for this is simple. If you can't squeeze the lever to the bar with the set screw removed then the piston rod is too long. If your lever does touch the bar then a shorter rod will do you no good. So check that out and let me know the result.

Understanding the design intent can help you with achieving proper adjustment. The stock lever disengages the clutch with finger room between the lever and the bar so the rest of the lever stroke separates the clutch plates further then is absolutely necessary. Because of all this extra slave cylinder throw the position of the engagement point and the end of the lever swing is not critical and adjustment of the stock lever is easy. But the ratio of lever swing to slave cylinder throw is high so the squeeze is hard.

My lever moves the slave cylinder roughly half the distance of the stock lever so the ratio of lever swing to slave displacement is lower and results in an easier pull. Because my lever minimizes the clutch plate separation, adjustment of both ends of the lever stroke is more critically precise especially the engagement position.

My lever was designed to start from about the same reach position as the stock lever when released and then be squeezed fully to the bar for complete disengagement.

The adjustment must start with the point the clutch begins to engage as you release the lever. Obviously you want the clutch to be fully disengaged when the lever is squeezed to the bar. But what is not so obvious is that you also want the clutch to start to engage as close to the bar as possible as you release the lever. The reason is that the lever must swing a minimum distance to allow the clutch spring(s) to fully load the clutch plates. This is the reach distance position. The adjustment for this is the button head cap screw which acts as a lever stop and sets the reach. Getting the engagement position as close to the bar as possible results in the reach distance being minimized.

So setting the engagement position is first and is critical. This is why the engine must be hot when starting the adjustment procedure. Because the clutch plate separation distance is minimized, cold tranny oil will cause much more fluid drag between the clutch plates. You would then try to eliminate the cold drag by adjusting the piston rod forward separating the clutch plates more, which means the reach distance will be greater as well. You should expect that the clutch with my lever will drag more when cold. But this will go away when the engine is hot.

This should give you a basis for understanding the critical nature of the adjustment procedure on the packaging. If it is followed correctly it should result in proper operation.

Adjustment is a common problem since my lever is much more precise to the operating parameters of the clutch then the stock lever but I don't think it is common that people give up and then don't use the lever. Just to make sure you know (and tell your friend) that I have a warranty for "defects in satisfaction" so if the lever does not work out for you then you can return it for a refund. I don't get a lot of returns, but I do get a lot of adjustment questions and once adjustment is achieved people love the lever.

The adjustment fasteners were Loctited at assembly but with the amount of adjustment tweaking you have been doing you should reapply Loctite. One characteristic of the hydraulic clutch systems is that once adjusted they don't change so if you seem to be having major changes in the operation of the clutch lever (other than cold to hot operation) I'd suspect that the adjustment fasteners are moving due to bike vibration and lack of Loctite. I do take my tiny allen wrenches out on the trail with me but I have not had to make any adjustments in three years of setting up the levers on my bikes. That is why I have not bothered to design the traditional thumb screw adjustments. Why make the lever more expensive? Once set they stay and there is no need for on the fly adjustment like with a cable clutch system.

It’s a good principal to be confident of your equipment especially during a race so I think you made a wise decision using the stock lever. But with the lever properly adjusted, a couple relatively short but aggressive rides allowing the bike to cool completely so you experience the cold to hot operating transformation should give you back the confidence to win a race with the new levers.

I hope this helps. Contact me if you have any more questions and/or call me if you would like to discuss in more detail. If all else fails, utilize the warrantee.

Steve

PS. I think this is a great outline for a YouTube video about the adjustment process if I can only find the time…

MME on facebook LinkedIn

Steve Pohl
Midwest Mountain Engineering
362 Monroe St.
Prescott, WI 54021
Office Phone: 715-262-4607
Cell Phone: 715-338-7407
website: Midwest Mountain Engineering
e-mail: [email protected]
 

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wow that was some right up for a lever.

What ever you do don't ask anything technical, you might crash the server!!!!
 

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i put one on my bike as i feel the new dds clutch heavy, and havin g it disengage as in the above post as it leasves the bars isnt what i want. ive have this clutch of mine in bits and it just dont feel the same or disengage with it pulled up to my knuckes like it does on my mates bike with same dds clutch, plus his is light as hell compared to mine. pissed off with it tbh
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Mike think you done same as me
Wen you first set the biting point you did it to jus off your knuckles?
You need to set it jus off the bar
Then as you a just the span it amusts the biting point further out
So you have limited and compromised its range by half already
I'm going to try set mine up again tmz as he suggests
 

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i put one on my bike as i feel the new dds clutch heavy, and havin g it disengage as in the above post as it leasves the bars isnt what i want. ive have this clutch of mine in bits and it just dont feel the same or disengage with it pulled up to my knuckes like it does on my mates bike with same dds clutch, plus his is light as hell compared to mine. pissed off with it tbh
i had real trouble setting it up on my DDS equipped 450 so I spoke to steve Pohl and he explained the pin length issues ,I bought a few replacement pins from KTM and ground them down to various lengths until I managed to get the bite/release point where I wanted it.... Then I sold the bike.
Ive now got the lever on my 300 operating the back brake.
 

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yeah ross thats what i did but in so having the lever reach wgere i wanted it it made clutch slip at higher revs, gonna have another fiddle tomorrow night. as the instructions say, but tbh, its no lighter pull that stock lever on damo butlers bike i tried last weekend
 

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i tried one, fucked about with rod lenghts and adjustments for fuckin ages and the lever was shill shit.
 

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I bought one 2nd hand for my Beta as the stock lever (same as KTM anyway) was catching on my EE hand guards. Worked fine on the Beta although the pull is very easy anyway. Transferred it to my new 300 and have found 3 things:

The KTM clutch drag is very difficult to overcome and makes the adjustment much more difficult.

My hand guard was bent and I've bent it back and put the original lever back on until I understand how the DDS clutch feels.

Ex works, the clutch hydraulics was 1 part brake fluid and 3 parts air. Have just bled the system through and the fluid was like blue gravy and thick as treacle. So thick it was impossible to back bleed it.

The Midwest lever is going back in the tool chest until I have some hours on the 300.
 

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I have about 150 hrs on one on my 200 exc. It took me ages to get it set up but now I love it. I'm no Graham Jarvis but IMHO you might find the following useful:

I make sure there is a small amount of play in the lever and it is not applying pressure to the clutch at all - even a small amount of pressure causes slip on my bike.
I mount mine as far right as it will go (I've got twinwalls), and shift my hand slightly to the left to allow one finger operation & a decent hold on the bars during logs etc
I had to cut away a bit of grip to allow it to travel freely
I've used 2 or 3 thin washers to set the stop/return and have loctited this and the adjustment screw.

Like the guy says, due to the mechanical advantage/ leverage effect it's designed to travel all the way to the handle bar unlike a conventional lever - which is the price you pay for an easier pull.

Hope this helps....
 

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i put one on my bike as i feel the new dds clutch heavy, and havin g it disengage as in the above post as it leasves the bars isnt what i want. ive have this clutch of mine in bits and it just dont feel the same or disengage with it pulled up to my knuckes like it does on my mates bike with same dds clutch, plus his is light as hell compared to mine. pissed off with it tbh
Mike,

The lever is not for everyone. In fact it was designed for me! (by me). So it is the way I like it. However please give it another try. But set it up the way I like it and you might just change your mind and then I would really like to hear back from you. [email protected]

I was working pit crew for a local Pro at the Jack Pine National Enduro put on by the NEPG and he was trying out my lever. He insisted the lever be adjusted with finger room under the lever when it disengages. After the first test he came back hating it and wishing his pit crew had brought along his stock lever. The reach was to great. So I suggested that he do the same and let me adjust it the way it was intended to work. After the second test he said by the 5th corner into the woods he was starting to forget about the clutch and by the end he loved the lever and has used one ever sense. Moral of the story is using the lever the way it was designed to work makes a big difference whether you like it or not. You still might not like it but you never know until you try something new.

Steve
 

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Hi. The problem is though with no finger room in technical sections I find it way too hard to hold onto the bars if I dont have finger room. I was a trials rider for years and always ride with one or two fingers operating the clutch. Thus having room for my knuckles. At the moment it's set with such a big reach to get to be able to have finger room. It's a good job I've very large hands or I'd not be able to reach the lever. So what your saying is that there's never going to be room between knuckles with lever in stock lever reach position without any clutch slip ? Please advise. Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Great news that we now have the designer and inventor of the
Midwest mountain engineering lever on the forum eh?
After my emails he was keen to join to help is all get the best out of his lever

Mike you have flagged up what I'm thinking I've jus emailed him this

Steve great your on the forum now
But mike has jus asked a question
That I too thought
That the lever could be set up wi room for fingers behind the lever and at stock reach position
I thought my problem in initial set up
With biting point behind knuckles
Had compromised it's range
And if set at the bars wen span adjusted it would leave room for one finger pull with biting point just off the knuckle and at stock span

Not sure the time difference from his location to ours but I'm sure he'll be back soon
Another question is somebody mentioned the pull effort
I'm not noticing a major difference in pull effort from the Midwest to my stock
Yet on ozzys berg on my first encounter with Midwest lever compared
To my 2013 Ktm exc 300 the difference was massive
Maybe this is due to incorrect setup
I'm off out to have another go at setting up
 

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Very interested in your results Ross. Me and a mate are about to send Steve some pennies and would really like to hear your results before doing so. (also good that Steve is on the forum)
 

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Have these on both my bikes with good results. To overcome the knuckle issue I just mount it further down the bar.
 
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Plus one on mounting further down the bars. I have had them on a husky and now a ktm. Take your time setting them up at home, then test ride. Once set up you'll love them! Gave a big decrease in pull on the husky, although for some reason on the ktm it feels the same as the o/e lever. I just use one finger on mine and position the lever down the bar to suit, also trim a bit off the rubber grip behind the lever. Hope this helps. Nige.
 

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Discussion Starter #18

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ivymike

Everything you say pretty much mirrors my experience.
To get the bite point in a position where I want it, leaving knuckle room then I have to have the lever set far away from the bar and positioned as far to the right hand side as possible.

I also find that the pull isn't as light as it could be.

I really don't think having the bite point right back at the bar will work for me.

One thing I noticed in playing with my clutch is that when my lever is pulled half way, the pressure plate lifts slightly at an angle (off piss), only when the lever is fully pulled does it lift off evenly. I think this is to do with the inconsistent Belleville spring issue. You can see this clearly, when running the bike in neutral, take the oil filler cap off and experiment pulling the clutch. You may see the pressure plate wobbling. I think this is what causes the drag.
I'm tempted to try the heavier spring or a thicker clutch plate to try and alleviate this, as I really think this is the issue.

For me the most important thing is having the bite point in the right place, and secondly lever pull.

As for getting used to the Midwest setup, I'm sure for racing fast events the bite point is irrelevant but for the slow technical riding I do I really need a bite point half way up the lever.

Ross I'll await your findings.
 
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