[Leverman]

Please be patient with me, I am still getting used to this forum layout and my posts are not appearing where I expect them to. Do we have two separate threads going on this topic?

Mike, If you have the master cylinder positioned so that the lever is used with two fingers then you never worry about needing finger room under the lever. You just squeeze to the bar. Its supposed to be a shorty lever so you don't have to release the bar to get the lever past your fingers and you always have the maximum possible grip on the bar because you don't crush your fingers in that panic grab moment. 90% of the modulation of power delivery comes within the first 10% of the stroke so its NOT like you have to fan the lever to the bar to slip the clutch when desired.

 

[Leverman]

But mike has jus asked a question
That I too thought
That the lever could be set up wi room for fingers behind the lever and at stock reach position
I thought my problem in initial set up
With biting point behind knuckles
Had compromised it's range
And if set at the bars wen span adjusted it would leave room for one finger pull with biting point just off the knuckle and at stock span

Not sure the time difference from his location to ours but I'm sure he'll be back soon
Another question is somebody mentioned the pull effort
I'm not noticing a major difference in pull effort from the Midwest to my stock
Yet on ozzys berg on my first encounter with Midwest lever compared
To my 2013 Ktm exc 300 the difference was massive
Maybe this is due to incorrect setup
I'm off out to have another go at setting up

Ross, It does not work well to start by setting the Bite Point such that you have finger room under the lever. Because then you end up with excessive reach distance and if you then use the lever stop adjuster to move it closer it will put pressure on the piston and you will have a slipping clutch. The lever will only work well if the bite point is next to the bar. Then the reach is minimized when released.

There are some images that explain the force reduction of the lever on my website: Midwest Mountain Engineering The force reduction was measured with a digital force gage (OK, its a fish scale, but its accurate enough for the job). The lever is basically like a teeter totter. If you move the fulcrum closer to the fat kid, the skinny kid can balance the heaver load. Even though the force reduction can be measured the real feel happens while you ride. But set-up makes a huge difference in feel. If you have the bite point wrong and the lever is way out there you end up squeezing the lever closer to the pivot and that is like scootching the little kid close to the teeter totter fulcrum: The fat kit hits the ground or the lever is harder to pull.

8 hours is the time difference. Your ahead of me so your evening is my morning / your night is my afternoon.

 

[ivymike]

hi lever man, i understand abouot the lever back to the bar but its just not comfortable technical riding that way for me and i suspect many others, as stated be fine for faster tracks but we do some seriously technical riding where bite point feel is more crutial than lever pull force to an extent like david dudley stated.

 

[ivymike]

davis dudley,
yeah think my bike does have the same issues as yours as i was with damo last weekend and his clutch in his bike is night and day better than mine. problem with mine is ive no parts to compare them to so its going to bike shop monday, as its pissing me right off, its as if push rod aint quite long enough. had clutch out and its all fine so god knows, re bled it and everything. ill let you know the findings, bike has about 8 hrs on it now and still no better

 

[ivymike]

dont think the mw lever is for me , not saying its a bad lever but there was no where stating it bites as it leaves the bar! but i know some riders like the bike like that, ross halls team manager rides with his clutch just biting off the bars so it might be getting given to gypo

 

[ktm450awyeah]

It'd be interesting to know what butler has done with his
I fitted the thicker steel plate bled it through and set it on the x dimension and put a 4mm shorter pin and it's much better very light and the biting point is much more adjustable

 

[david_dudley]

His is stock Ozzy. Graham's too. I've had a discussion with him about it and he said they've had no problems with the DDS.
I really think the problem is the way the pressure plate lifts off centre and causes it to drag still when it should be completely disengaged.
As for lever pull, the only real thing that you are pulling against is the spring.
I'm away at the min so not been able to experiment but having read a lot about the clutch, it is apparently vital to make sure that the bevel spring is completely flat when the bolts are all tightened up.

As for the push rod, I don't think a longer push rod would help, there is plenty of travel available. The problem seems to be that a longer lever pull is required for complete disengagement. In my opinion this should happen at half lever travel. (If this was the case then this is where the Midwest lever would come in).
With my bite point position it's impossible for a Midwest lever to lighten the pull. Maybe it's this inconsistency of the DDS that has meant that people aren't finding a benefit of the lever.
For the Midwest to work the bit point needs to be half way up the lever.

 

[zip]

His is stock Ozzy. Graham's too. I've had a discussion with him about it and he said they've had no problems with the DDS.
I really think the problem is the way the pressure plate lifts off centre and causes it to drag still when it should be completely disengaged.
As for lever pull, the only real thing that you are pulling against is the spring.
I'm away at the min so not been able to experiment but having read a lot about the clutch, it is apparently vital to make sure that the bevel spring is completely flat when the bolts are all tightened up.

As for the push rod, I don't think a longer push rod would help, there is plenty of travel available. The problem seems to be that a longer lever pull is required for complete disengagement. In my opinion this should happen at half lever travel. (If this was the case then this is where the Midwest lever would come in).
With my bite point position it's impossible for a Midwest lever to lighten the pull. Maybe it's this inconsistency of the DDS that has meant that people aren't finding a benefit of the lever.
For the Midwest to work the bit point needs to be half way up the lever.

Finally I have found out what DDS stands for.
David Dudley Synopsis

 

[mike54]

I'm having the same issues as Mike. When it's adjusted the way it feels comfortable, I have clutch slip at high revs. To make it disengage I have to have the lever so far away I can only just reach it (and I have gorilla hands). If I bring the lever back in towards the bar to find the bite point using the set screw, then the piston rod is already actuating the clutch anyway, no matter than the smaller grub scrub has no pressure on it. Is this an issue with longer piston rods on MY14 bikes, or a fault? Or am I just not setting it correctly?

 

[Mxdave]

I love my Midwest lever, one of the best things I've ever purchased for a bike.

 

[Matthew Richardson]

I was struggling with a standard lever on my 576, put a Midwest lever on and it is magic! Clutch? What clutch!!!! It is so light and effortless + it looks neat and tidy

 

[KTMTM]

Does anyone know how long it takes for the Midwest levers to reach the UK?

Having done a lot of mountain biking I like the idea of shorter lever where I can use just two fingers. Find the standard ones stars he where if you leave your fingers on the bar you can end up squashing them.

 

[Kanga]

I've had a few sets and they have been a week or two before delivery.

 

[StevoEXC450]

Does anybody want to sell one that they don't like?

 

[nico570]

Ross, It does not work well to start by setting the Bite Point such that you have finger room under the lever. Because then you end up with excessive reach distance and if you then use the lever stop adjuster to move it closer it will put pressure on the piston and you will have a slipping clutch. The lever will only work well if the bite point is next to the bar. Then the reach is minimized when released.

There are some images that explain the force reduction of the lever on my website: Midwest Mountain Engineering The force reduction was measured with a digital force gage (OK, its a fish scale, but its accurate enough for the job). The lever is basically like a teeter totter. If you move the fulcrum closer to the fat kid, the skinny kid can balance the heaver load. Even though the force reduction can be measured the real feel happens while you ride. But set-up makes a huge difference in feel. If you have the bite point wrong and the lever is way out there you end up squeezing the lever closer to the pivot and that is like scootching the little kid close to the teeter totter fulcrum: The fat kit hits the ground or the lever is harder to pull.

8 hours is the time difference. Your ahead of me so your evening is my morning / your night is my afternoon.

Dear all, I also have a question regarding this lever, that I just bought and fitted on my berg 570 ( matura MC ) this afternoon.
I am also struggling to set it up properly:
I didn't yet bother with the reach distance, but here is the situation:
Once my lever is fully pulled, the clutch doesn't disengage enough IMO ( in first gear, lever pulled and touching the bar, the bike still move forward, while engine is hot)
I replaced the allen bolt that pushes the rod pin by a longer bolt...to the extent that rod pin is almost pushed out of the lever!!
Do I need a longer rod pin? ( in which case I have no clue where to find a longer one)?
or is it simply that my clutch plates that might be dead??

Lastly, I am planning to get an STM slipper clutch fitted on the bike, is there any further adjustments to be made with the lever or will it work normally?

Thanks for you replies, and my apologies for my english, hope my question still makes sense..

 

[johnny]

i had a 2012 450 exc brand new tried the lever set and got the same symptons even when the lever was fully pulled in the clutch was "dragging" the front lever was shit so binned that straight away.. tried to live with the clutch tried no end of different lengths of pins after 4 rides that got binned aswell so vowed never to use them again

But got a new bike to me with one fitted and it is mega no drag at all no free play but is alot better
so my advice is keep trying different length pins

 

[nico570]

my advice is keep trying different length pins

Any tips where to find some? after long internet search, not many results, impossible to find as spare part, nor for brembo,
googled "pivot" "pin" etc, with poor results, also checked brembo and magura catalogues :s should i spent time checking spare secondhand mcs? or get one machined? nothing found either on miwest mountain..

 

[mick.]

Buy a few standard brembo pins and grind them down yourself.

Btw it's called a pushrod on the fische not a pivot pin

KTM SXF/SX 125-450 New Brembo clutch master cylinder push rod 54802046000 KT4162 | eBay

 

[steveman]

Once my lever is fully pulled, the clutch doesn't disengage enough IMO ( in first gear, lever pulled and touching the bar, the bike still move forward, while engine is hot)

What you desrcibe I have heard quite often, thats why I decided not to buy one. Should you find a solution (e.g. grinded down pushrod etc.) pls. let me know.

 

[Ross hall]

On the lever man he registered on the forum so he could help with any questions