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Discussion Starter #1
OK so I've gone and done it, I've bought a '09 RC8 R, pic below (I have posted this on another thread but it will have to do till I take some more pics)

About the bike, as described above it's a '09 RC8 R, 17k miles, full Akra system, it's just had a service, new tyres pilot powers which wouldn't be my 1st choice ((or 2nd or 3rd for that matter) but they are brand new so I'll make a decision on whether she needs stickier rubber a little later. It's also had new brake pads, SBS HS ( I'd have preferred the RS version) but again they are new so can't really moan, the forks/rear damper have just had a refresh so that's a nice bonus, chain looks reasonably new, so all in all it seems to be all good, there are a few issues though, the tank is a little rough it's sort of 1/2 satin 1/2 matt with some stains from what I'd assume is petrol spillage so I'll probably end up repainting it, the tail and belly pan plastics could do with a re-paint there are a few scratches on the tail and some heat damage on the belly pan, they are all fully serviceable but eventually I'd like to sort them out. The other cause for concern was the efi light flashing a fault code at me, 7 slow blinks 2 fast = 72, this apparently is a 2nd throttle issue/malfunction. So I've borrowed a TuneEcu off a friend, download the software and liked it up, this revealed 3 fault codes P0051 O2 ground/open circuit, P0351 no1 coil malfunction and finally P0638 2nd throttle malfunction ( my 72 code), any way I've cleared the codes and will run it up to temp tomorrow see if they return ( finger crossed). The other minor niggles is not been able to remove the little seats mount hole plug things, I've pulled at the lever but they are solid, maybe I'm doing something wrong? either way they need to come off I'm not sure if the rear plastics will come off with them in place?
So first impressions, these are difficult at the moment due to not having ridden it..I'll do doubt take it around the block at some point this weekend weather permitting. But initial impressions are good, it seems well built no major issues (will if the 2nd throttle issue stays away), at the moment I'm just going to remove all the plastics give it a once over and abit of a clean and tidy. Then I can consider the next steps... Firstly I think I'll be removing the SAS, evap completely I can't see the point in carrying about unnecessary stuff so they will be going. So a quick question for any tuneecu gurus if I remove the emissions kit add the blanking plates, block the air box hole do I just tick the SAI box in the tuneecu? same goes for the O2 sensors, they can be also can be deactivated in the program, what (if any) changes need to made in the map to supporting deleting the SAS / O2 sensors?
That's it for now, I'll post some naked shots of her tomorrow..
 

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Hi Budd

Congratulations or commiserations – time will tell.
Watch out for the expanding fuel tank. I have to tilt the rear subframe back (by removing the 2 upper bolts and slackening the lower 2), supporting the tail from the ceiling, to get the tank off and back on. However, I have had to put helicoils in the subframe (made of aluminium cheese = easily stripped threads).

Don’t over tighten the air box cover screws – even easier to strip plastic threads !

Not toooo sure about TuneECU “can and can’t do’s”, but presumably what you turn off, you can then remove the parts from the bike and replace with covers/blanks etc.

Maybe get a dyno' re-map (eg. Dave Wood Racing)

Have fun……
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hi Budd

Congratulations or commiserations – time will tell.
Watch out for the expanding fuel tank. I have to tilt the rear subframe back (by removing the 2 upper bolts and slackening the lower 2), supporting the tail from the ceiling, to get the tank off and back on. However, I have had to put helicoils in the subframe (made of aluminium cheese = easily stripped threads).

Don’t over tighten the air box cover screws – even easier to strip plastic threads !

Not toooo sure about TuneECU “can and can’t do’s”, but presumably what you turn off, you can then remove the parts from the bike and replace with covers/blanks etc.

Maybe get a dyno' re-map (eg. Dave Wood Racing)

Have fun……
Thanks for the reply, I also have a Aprilia RSV so I'm familiar with the expanding tank scenario, fortunately it came off no problem so
seems to be fine. I'll do more research on the tuneecu but so for it seems pretty straight forward, although I think the first map sent to the bike will be a tense affair... And yes when it's all sorted the final thing will be Dyno tune to tweak the map. I've just changed the gears over to a race shift which I prefer ( although I have an old CBR 1000 that's STD shift which makes riding interesting for the first few miles, it's easy to forget ...) Looking forward to taking it for a little ride tomorrow ?
 

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They’re a great bike and I really miss mine from time to time..
When I bought mine it had the stock exhaust on it, I bought a full Akra off someone on here and got the tune ECU cable so I could load the map only to find the Akra map was already on it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Had a brief test ride on it yesterday and it was it felt fine very similar to my Aprilia, perhaps a bit lighter and smaller feeling but other than that not night and day different. This is not a bad thing BTW I really liked my RSV and if this is like that only a bit more so then I'll be happy. 2 problems on the test ride, first my fault I've swapped it to race shift pattern and forgot to tighten the lock nuts on the pedal adjuster so lost my gears...simple job to reconnect it ( message to self tighten stuff as you do it..) 2nd problem the EFi light is still on flashing 72 so it's the 2nd throttle system playing up, I haven't bothered clearing the fault in tuneecu I'll do it when I load the modified map, and also try to diagnose the problem I think you can run a test to check secondary throttle operation so I'll do that and see if I can get to the root of the problem.
Test ride done I got busy stripping it down, here it is with its clothes of...





loving the Akra system not sure which 'evo' version it is but it's pure bike porn..


Also started the work I want to do before it is ready for the road, along with the usual service stuff I've decided to delete the SAS/evap, o2 sensors so I have new removed the whole SAS ( the evap was already gone so I need to check if the pipes have been plugged up correctly). After what I've been reading I was expecting a PITA of a job but SAS removal was pretty straightforward, no need to remove the air box ( which does look a nasty job) I found by dropping the rad a couple of inches, detaching the hoses it came really easy, just need to plug the airbox hole and wait for the blanking plates to arrive. Next job was the o2 sensors I've removed those to, ordered the blanking plugs (threads are M18 x 1.5 if you need any), so once the SAS blanking plates, o2 bings are installed I can delete them on the map via tuneecu and it should be job done, then to sort that pesky 2nd throttle..
Quick word on the o2 sensors, the rear cyl sensor (right in pic) looks Ok, but the front looks a bit rich.

so there seems to be a fueling issue, whether this is a TB balance issue or a map problem I'm do not yet now, Ill have the plugs out and see what they tell me, but I think once it's all back together a trip to the dyno is in order to get it checked out and tweaked as required.
Now waiting for bits, plenty of cleaning to do so won't be sitting about..
 

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Yours looks to be the same as mine which I'm told is an EVO1 system.

And yes, getting the airbox off is a right pain in the arse. Just done it for the first time and it wasn't easy.
20200210_214930.jpg
20200115-114245.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #7
yes exhaust looks pretty much the same, does yours have 'for race use only' stamped on the band nr the outlet?
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Made some progress over the last week, stripped it down some more. The bike as spent time in Dubai, and as a result it is covered in fine dust, this stuff is everyway not a lot just a light coating but it's in every nook and cranny so mine objective was to give it a good deep clean. So TBs out, air box off...

After reading various tales of woe re removing the TBs/airbox I was a little apprehensive, but it turned out to be pretty straightforward, the main problem is loosening the TB hose clamps, you only have a small access hole through which you have reach the clamp fasteners which in this case were 3mm hex (allen key) fortunately I have a decent selection of tools and found a 3/8 extra long ball headed 3mm hex socket spot-on for the job. But without this removal would be very difficult and probably nr impossible without damaging the clamps, so top tip if you're planning on removing the remove the TBs make sure you have a suitable tool to loosen the clamps.

tial section stripped down..

found some interesting wiring of the tail tidy this is someones idea of a good job (shakes head),

re wiring not sure what this large multi plug is ??? possibly an old alarm system, but it's not connected to anything so ultimately I'll probably try to remove it from the loom, not a priority at the mo so it will just get cable tied out of the way.

starting to get nice and clean

in the meantime some of the bits I'd ordered arrived, O2 bungs, KTM powerparts SAS blanks and some new plugs £15 each EEK, glad it's not the twin spark..

quick word on getting at the plugs, rear is a breeze but the front would be a pig with the air box in place, just a small access hole through which you have to disconnect the coil plug and remove coil before you can get at the plug, new plugs now fitted so should be OK for a good few miles now.
It's now back up and running, new map applied (well I say new map it's just the old one with the o2 sensors and SAS disabled) no fault codes so the modified map as done its job, not ridden it yet but it sounds fine, noticed on tuneecu the throttle is only at 93% fully open, will have to have a look at that see if it's to do with the cable adjustment, I've not properly reset cable tension/slack since I refitted them, or it could be something is stopping the butterflies opening fully?
Next job is to clean and refit all the plastics, better get started.
 

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The multipin plug is for the KTM plug and play alarm.

IIRC There’s a routine in TuneEcu for calibrating the throttle. It’s possible the throttle is opening all the way but the full throttle position needs setting.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thought it looked like an alarm plug, yes I'm aware of the tps setting method, once the new map is applied you turn the ignition on open and close the throttle slowly I think within 10secs then turn off and back on again and that should recalibrate the throttle, anyway did that and it remains the same, so I'm thinking it's either the cable adjustment or a hard stop on the throttle body, I'll check it out and see what can be done
 

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Here is something I did to get 100% TPS, a while ago........

www.ktmforum.co.uk/threads/tps-now-100.163333/#post-1067839

Unfortunately there is a problem with ‘photobucket’ and the new forum layout that has lost all but one of the images :(.
(My avitar used to be animated - L&H dancing - but thats gone now).
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I'm not sure, I've only just taken it off. I'll have a look
View attachment 32281 View attachment 32282
mine says 'for race use only' right where as nosy copper may look if he decided it was 'a tad' loud (which it is with the baffle out),

I went down to see my mate earlier (bike MOT'r who'll be testing it in June) and he was saying something just as I fired it up and while I could see his lips moving whatever he was saying was completely drowned out. The MOT will be interesting...
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Here is something I did to get 100% TPS, a while ago........

www.ktmforum.co.uk/threads/tps-now-100.163333/#post-1067839

Unfortunately there is a problem with ‘photobucket’ and the new forum layout that has lost all but one of the images :(.
(My avitar used to be animated - L&H dancing - but thats gone now).
Hi yes I read that post, it's one of the reason I checked the TPS in the first place, I'll get round to having a look at it before take the bike out properly.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
well it was actually sunny today (cold but sunny) so with no rain on the horizon I decided to give 'R' and my old Aprilia a wash.




Pics taken before they had a wash hence all the dead flies on the ape..
 

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Discussion Starter #16
We everyone is on lockdown here in the UK, this is mildly annoying for many reasons but also because the weather is good and I bought my RC8R in Feb so I’ve been dying to try it out.

I’ve spent the last few weeks cleaning, servicing and basically fettling the bike ready for spring and really looking forward to getting out on it, so this lockdown business is a bit of a PITA to put it mildly.

I have managed to get out on it twice weekend before last when the lockdown was more of a suggestion then a requirement. First ride was a fairly steady affair just me and my mate on his new Triumph Street Triple RS (cracking little bike the Triumph), Chris who owns the Triumph as only been riding a couple of years so was the perfect companion for my maiden ride. Did a couple of 100 miles on fast A roads, country roads with a bit of motorway throw in for good measure and 1st impressions are largely positive. My previous bike was (still is as I haven’t sold it yet) a well sorted ’01 Aprilia RSV 1000R and the 2 bikes are not dissimilar. The ape is quite a tall narrow bike as is the KTM, obviously both are big twins with strong mid-range shove, the ape also benefits from lightweight wheels (forged OZ racing) and top quality suspension (Ohlins) so I guess the similarity is no surprise. So bearing in mind this was a steady ‘get to know you’ ride it did reveal some of the KTMs character. While the low /mid-range is broadly similar to the Ape, the upper reaches of the rev range are much stronger. I’ve been fettling the ape for a number of years, this includes changes to the gearing -1 tooth front sprocket + 2 rear which I why I think the bikes feel similar in the low mid-range, the difference comes when the ape is running out of breath the KTM is just getting its stride coupled with the longer gearing the KTM is much faster and will would probably equal the apes top speed in 5th!!! So the performance is there and for the most part it handles very well I did notice it’s less settled than the ape over rougher surfaces, and gets very lively over fast crests, on fast A roads it’s very composed and confidence inspiring. This 1st ride has however revealed a couple of issues, firstly it’s very ‘snatch’y’ in the low revs, very difficult to modulate the throttle and ride smoothly at low speed. it feels like a fuelling issue so may need a re map at some point, but I’m also thinking the throttle 2nd butterflies may be contributing here. The ecu operates these secondary butterflies independently of the main butterflies, the snatch at low speed feels like something else is acting on the throttle, something acting independently so I imagine this is what it would feel like if the 2nd flies were interfering with the fuelling. I’m told that these 2nd flies are there to smooth air flow so in theory should improve throttle response but I’m also told they are there to lower induction noise and for emissions purposes. And if I know anything about emissions devices they rarely improve how the engine behaves, so in the first instance I think I’m going to set the 2nd flies to 100% open across the rev range in the tuneecu map, if this gives any improvement then I’ll consider removing them entirely. The nest potential issue involves the brakes, there is a noticeable judder on SOME brake applications, I say some applications because it doesn’t do it all the time, so a possible warped disc(s), brake material deposits on the disc? These are the usual suspects but surely it would judder under all brake applications, I’ll check for any run out on the discs and give them a bit of a clean with emery cloth. I’ll also be checking the forks, due to the intermittent nature of the issue I’ve not convinced it’s a brake problem, it actually feels like the forks are sticking, maybe the seals are too tight causing them to bind a little. I also noticed a slight coolant leak near the water pump, only a tiny amount but it suggests the water pump impeller shaft seals are failing so I’ll be investigating that.

Before my second ride out I checked all the suspension settings and set them all to ‘standard’ as per the handbook, re checked the tyre pressures (36 f 36r), so I now have a datum to work from I also bleed the rear brake so it now works!! The second ride was a bit more of a frantic affair, again Chris on his Street triple we were joined by Rick on a ’06 Gixer 1000, Rick is a bit of a character (often dubbed ‘P’rick because on occasion OK most of the time he rides let a knob) now Rick is an ex supermotard racer and rides the big Suzuki like he stole it, but despite his cavalier attitude to traffic laws he is a bloody fast rider, trying to keep him in sight while remaining reasonably sensible and therefore safe is quite a challenge… So the KTM got a bit more of a workout than the previous day, and I have to say it acquitted its self very well, a match for the Suzuki on fast A roads and twisty B roads, the mid-range stump reeling the gixer in on corner exit speed, it’s only on the motorway the Suzuki’s superior top speed becomes apparent. So another 150 or so miles and I’m getting more used to the RC8, I’ve wound the steering damper up to control the head shakes over crests and discovered that rather than chasing the revs short shifting makes it much more stable on uneven / bumpy surfaces, so progress has been made and I’ll tweak the suspension settings to get a solid base setting so I can optimise the settings over the next few rides out.

Unfortunately when this ‘next ride out’ will be is unknown at the present time, but I’ve got plenty of little jobs to be getting on with in the meantime, along with investigating and trying to sort the previously mentioned issues, I’ll be fitting the Brembo RCS 19 brake m/c. This made a very worthwhile addition to my old Aprilia I’m hoping it will improve the RC8s system and work well with the excellent Brembo monoblock calipers.

Sorry this was a bit of a long read but I’m slightly bored sitting at home on lockdown and there is a suggestion this lockdown hysteria may last 6 months!!! FFS
 

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I've flashed the akra map onto my RC8, switched off O2 and SAS in TuneEcu. It's noticeably smoother at low revs than before but at 30 MPH it still seems to be hunting. Switching the SAS off only suppresses the error code.

I've just put blanking plates on and removed the SAS valve to stop the popping on deceleration. That's supposed to smooth it out a bit more as the fuelling should now be correctly metered.

I've not noticed if you mentioned doing it or not, but the 16T (minus 1) front sprocket is supposed to be a good compromise on top speed vs acceleration, and puts it in the smoother rev range at 25-30MPH range. I'll be taking it to the supermarket to test/get some food shopping so I'll let you know.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I've flashed the akra map onto my RC8, switched off O2 and SAS in TuneEcu. It's noticeably smoother at low revs than before but at 30 MPH it still seems to be hunting. Switching the SAS off only suppresses the error code.

I've just put blanking plates on and removed the SAS valve to stop the popping on deceleration. That's supposed to smooth it out a bit more as the fuelling should now be correctly metered.

I've not noticed if you mentioned doing it or not, but the 16T (minus 1) front sprocket is supposed to be a good compromise on top speed vs acceleration, and puts it in the smoother rev range at 25-30MPH range. I'll be taking it to the supermarket to test/get some food shopping so I'll let you know.
Yes it as the sas and 02 delete efi light disabled in tuneecu. Can't say whether it's made it better as I didn't ride it before I changed the settings. My thought is it could be the 2nd throttle butterflies that are to blame, they operate independently to the main throttles and the surging feels like slight changes in throttle input even though you are holding the twist grip steady. It's fairly easy to change the 2nd butterflies to 100% open across the rev range which would eliminate there effect at low throttle inputs, if the surging is improved then I know I'm on the right track if not I can just return to current setting.
 

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Have you checked and set static and rider sag?

The stock suspension settings are a good guideline, but sag is especially important from a safety point of view if you think it's lively over bumps.
 
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