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I have a question on this....

Does the needle have the same tuning variation with a STIC fitted as it does without a STIC? Normally on a Keihin you can utilise a large range of needles for different throttle regions once into needle variables.

It seems a bit daft to me to lose the adjustment across all needle ranges? Please explain why the large volume of needles is reduced to just JD red?
That is a fair question but I wonder how many people are really tuning the 'mid-settings' to the nth degree on the needle? I reckon that most people are tuning the 'just off idle and 1/4 throttle settings on the needle and really the thickness of the parallel section and its length is what is controlling that. Having set that you are right in that you are only given one needle (well two I suppose) in the kit. Maybe so much testing has now been done on the STIC block that it really has only been narrowed down to the red and blue needle. Of course there are several different emulsion tubes which have different size needle jets which gives you several options. I'm just spit balling here, George may give a better explanation!
 

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Thanks for the reply SCB. To me though (as being extremely finicky about everything being right) I’d need to be 100% sure you can still tune each parameter individually- not so important on a 250/300 as people don’t use the throttle much in comparison. On smaller motors it makes a big difference, it can be ok/workable or “no way is that only just xxx cc”. Just a wrong/different clip height or taper angle can mean a small bore (150 in my case) can be hard work to ride. It’s no secret I spend a long time getting it right for me and where I ride. I’d want to be sure that I can still tune all areas unless a STIC removes all that and a generic needle is all that’s required? Having it work right everywhere is important. It’s why a Lectron is naff on a small bore. Yes it’ll be clean and linear but you will lose tuning flexibility and flexibility (on a small bore). I do accept that the STIC does tend to improve things overall compared to stock though on any motor. I just wouldn’t want an SX type delivery.
 

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Discussion Starter #263
pindie I think it might be worth looking it another way. once the jetting is bob on, do final adjustment to set up using the powervalve or a throttle cam.

the only 'negative ' I can point to is the response the stic provides can be too good. fuelling makes a Tpi feel lethargic. you have to get used to having a much steadier throttle hand.

my fix was to run a smidgen more free play to prevent whisky throttle when tired.

you can run various needles for a different character. I like the suzuki ones for the smooth power. you can balance richer needles with a bigger main jet to lean (yes lean. syphon break) .
if you keep the pilot at a 52
necl 194
neck 198
necj 205
necw 210 all those needles run perfectly in the stic and clean as a whistle off idle.
 

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That is a fair question but I wonder how many people are really tuning the 'mid-settings' to the nth degree on the needle? I reckon that most people are tuning the 'just off idle and 1/4 throttle settings on the needle and really the thickness of the parallel section and its length is what is controlling that. Having set that you are right in that you are only given one needle (well two I suppose) in the kit. Maybe so much testing has now been done on the STIC block that it really has only been narrowed down to the red and blue needle. Of course there are several different emulsion tubes which have different size needle jets which gives you several options. I'm just spit balling here, George may give a better explanation!
Cheers SCB. I like your comment, especially the part about how most people do it. Its definitely something I can confirm and I did it that way too. Until I started to play with the JD comparison sheet and was unable to find a needle that I liked, except a Honda needle which isn't available anymore. After weeks of reading and writing e-mails with people much more into needles than me (many thx Hallsy!) I read some statements Jim (JD) wrote at KTM talk and in the meantime the number of needles I use is reduced to about 5 or 6. Unfortunately the JD Excel file does not contain Jim's own needles and also the NECx/NEDx series aren't covered. After I have compared about 50 of the most common needles I have found out that the differences in the mid sections are minor. Much smaller as I had expected.

But to come back to the STIC, mine (for the 300 Gasser) is on the way from the US. Thank you George, much appreciated! I am not sure when it will arrive and when I will be able to test it as I only can ride in Hungary and the borders are still closed even if the news said something different. I had the chance to test ride a KTM 300 2015 as well as a KTM 300 2017 (w.38 Keihin). I am still impressed and I am normally not that easy to impress. Unlike others I am not so curious to know all the technical details and how the STIC does what. All I can say is it works and it works with comparatively huge jets. It seems the principle that small bore engines require bigger jets than big bores remains untouched. Both of the 300's ridden mostly at 500feet and between 10 and 25 degrees celsius run jets between 190 and 195. After the owners have tried several different jets, pilot jets and needles both finally ended with what George, Jim and some others recommended. 190/195 main, 48/50 pilot and JD red in clip 3 seems to be a good set up. Both say the fuel consumption did not change much. But I know a guy from Germany who tried the stic in two of his bikes and he had unusually high fuel consumption on both bikes. I don't think he made mistakes as he knows a lot about jetting, a lot more than I probably ever will know. So that is the only thing that gives me food for thought. Unfortunately he has sold his kit so I can not compare it, as that would have been a good plan.
I searched KTM talk as well as Thumper Talk but fuel consumption seems to be no problem, Some say its a bit higher, others say its bit lower, overall no significant changes.

Did I ask you guys about fuel consumption? Can't remember....
 
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