[leeexc]

I am sure a top level rider in a top level team could make use of it but doubt that applies to this or any other forum.
You have a lot more faith in human nature than I do, yes there are a few honest people about but that is a few.

I honestly think as long as it is not bottoming out all the time and has some degree of dampening the rest is down to the rider, (no 2 bumps or 2 corners are the same so how can you possibly find the perfect set up) once you start messing you will never be happy and spend forever chasing your tail so it will cost you and mess with your head which is playing in to the hands of the so called suspension tuners.

Watch a top rider very carefully, all those slight body movements, small throttle movements, taps on the font and rear brake all contribute to how the bike reacts. Many just sit on the bike and if it does not seem to do exactly what they want chuck a big wad of cash at a suspension tuner to try to make up for there lack of skill.

 

[Al_Orange]

I agree about a lot of it being in your head - I could not ride my EXC aggressively over fast ground because whenever I did, at some point, the forks would either deflect (which would make me shit myself) or would start pogoing around (which would make me shit myself). So I didn't like doing fast events, I never felt confident opening it up over 4th gear, and I'm now generally shit at anything fast as a result. So now I have spent some cash on upgrading the forks, the bike behaves much more predictably and I can therefore go faster, with more confidence, and safer in the knowledge that I'm less likely to end up in A&E. It hasn't made me a world champion but it's greatly increased my safety and enjoyment. Honestly, I am a bit disappointed as I was hoping they would absolutely transform the bike, which they haven't. But they have removed the tendency for the bike to shit itself at random times.

I've still got a lot to learn in respect of body movement, throttle control, and brake usage, but now I'm happy to work on that knowing that my bike should behave in a much more predictable manner.

Point is - on the whole, if the bike is working well, then there's no real need to throw cash at the suspension. However, if there is a real problem then it needs addressing, as suspension is the most important part of the bike. If you're not comfortable or confident then it's simply no fun to ride.

 

[Wilso122]

Turning into a good chat about psychology of racing and skill, for sure there is room for improvement in riding, always, I'm a weekend warrier (at best) not an enduro / rally god and also getting some new training to refresh as we always slip to bad habits, that is also being addressed, first rally in 10 years and had forgotten a lot, too much... but still coming 155 overall and second in FIM class 4, so very happy with the overall result first time out.

Lee you are 100% right, all that goes through the mind but when you ride with people you know you are faster than and they leave you on every corner as you struggle to handle the bike then you have to go through the numbers, will it make my position any better, not likely will it help the enjoyment, probably. Too many snake oil salesmen out there, was speaking to someone trying to sell me 8k of ohlins, bullshit that will not make any difference.

So putting that aside, the 6500 is an easy option expensive but not horrible and maybe will help with the 'perceived issue', 7448 completely new forks really expensive and probably won't make much difference to justify the cost so it is good to know from people who have used them the 6500 is worthy upgrade not just a total waste of time / money.

@leeexc Got the Swank rally (rally di sardinia next) and last one of the Italian Moto Rally Championship, looking at something in Morocco for next year but first need to get back to do some training, maybe November time if work / budget allows some training in sand. But also liking the look of the Breslau Rally in Poland. too many to choose from! not enough time or cash....

 

[Wilso122]

My guess is cavitation as you have already pointed out.
The 6500s are brilliant, I have fitted a few now and because they run the same springs as the stock forks it makes things easier/more cost-effective.
message me if you want me to get you a price on a set

Thanks mate, alas I live in Italy at the moment so need to buy in Europe. let me see if I'm coming back at some point in a car.

 

[stumo]

I'm the same as Al (or i was till i broke my femur and not ridden since) but having suspension that works makes for a quicker and safer ride, knowing you can hit stuff without the bike deflecting off it etc.
'17 suspension would tie itself in knots at anything above hard enduro pace, with the forks acting like pogo sticks....The really good guys can ride around a lot of problems but mere mortals cannot.

I will say that a lot of people don't know and don't want to know how to setup suspension.
The amount of people i've spoken to esp up at cowm, which is evil id your suspension isn't working, have had their suspension back from getting an upgrade and not even fiddled with the adjusters is ridiculous.

 

[Nords]

Just had my 4860 4CS forks & 5018 DCC rear rebuilt in Niarobi. It will be interesting to see what difference it makes to a wobbler like me!

 

[It's not Ginger]

Good points Lee, I am just stumped with off-road suspension, as you say no two bends are ever the same, and even if your on a track / trail you know well they will be different within a few laps / by the next time you go there.

Al is on my wave-length, and certainly way better than me, I just won't push any more as soon as things feel the slightest bit "off", means I don't go faster / improve (also don't crash much) so a better setup helps me out more than it might some more talented folk.

I do however still play with adjusters, but without the benefit of a consistent test circuit / road I struggle to really be sure what is happening, but have found softening the forks from the supplied (by RSS) settings has helped - they obviously did not realize just how fucking slow I am when I told then I am slow.

Also softened rear until I could feel it starting to wallow after bumps, as a slow trail rider I need comfort and compliance, and it still feels fairly good when I get the chance to open it up a bit on an easy section, if it starts getting a bit out of hand I will just fiddle a bit more.

The other thing with improvements is diminishing returns, goes for most things from bike suspension to Hi-Fi, used to work on HiFi equipment many years ago, the shitty shop-branded and budget "Hi-Fi" systems that cost about £199 sounded fucking awful, a £500 set of separates would sound bloody awesome in comparison, but to me a £2,000 setup did not sound a lot better than the £500 kit.

Back to the subject, the RSS "Enduro Kit" I paid £500 for made a big difference for me, I suspect if I spent £2k on 6500's and an Ohlins rear and I would barely tell the difference, but I still think most people can feel and appreciate the quality, even if they don't really need the best money can buy, or can push it to its limits.

Like I could not fully utilize my DR400Z and most of the the folk here would piss all over me on on a DRZ regardless of what I was riding, but I still find the FE noticeably easier to ride than the DR, especially in harder terrain, on a smooth dusty track I could not notice much difference, in a bog or on a rocky climb I certainly can.

 

[charlie264]

Have your tried non synthetic fork oil, sounds like heat is your issue. Synthetics hold their viscosity better when hot than normal mineral hydraulic oils.